Rules for historical wrestling

[william_cain_iii]

Steering the topic a bit away from strikes, I think the basic rules for gouren (and the scoring system thereof) would make a great ruleset for Ringen, without much or any modification.

[Nicholas Moore]

Steering the topic a bit away from strikes, I think the basic rules for gouren (and the scoring system thereof) would make a great ruleset for Ringen, without much or any modification.

Do you have a link?

[Jason Taylor]

Mike Chidester:
You know, that's a good question. Most of the research I did comes from a pan-European overview, so it's quite possible that they weren't included in every tradition. I'm comfortable including all of them in my kampfringen training because many are no brainers, but to each their own.

Nicholas:
I'm not making an effort to rehash an old argument, only responding to the idea of there only being a few strikes and only to delicate anatomical targets. My belief is that many of the strike were considered better when used for those targets, but okay to use wherever (generic head, torso, whatever) within most of the traditions. So softening blows before the throw, even if it was the face and not the throat, would probably have been well-understood and used.

It may not relate directly to the folk systems you were asking for, but I think it is on point to the thread as far as asking what we're looking for in our simulation. There's a good argument that the "pin the guy on his back" thing in modern wrestling is based on finding a position to facilitate striking (yes, I know Greco is really French folk wrestling, but the argument still stands). So if we want to simulate Kampfringen, there may be a ruleset that can/has been developed somewhere where a point would be given for a fall that allows a strike/dagger blow to be delivered. If it's Ringkunst we're after, then throws and locks would be the most obvious things to score, and fake strikes would be pointless. I seem to remember one of Ringeck's unterhalten being a hold that seems to facilitate someone else finishing the guy off, as well. So in the sense of a "simulating the battlefield" thing, that could be included as a point as well, even though the guy doing the holding has a hard time actually capitalizing on it. BTW, the reference I'm using there is a passing one that I didn't follow up on my own, so it might not be Ringeck, and I could be wrong about the purpose, so YMMV.

So I guess we might want to consider starting with some kind of Gouren/whatever ruleset (Cornish is another one that comes to mind--I think that's Parkyn's Colse-Hugg Wrestling) and then considering if we want to add "position to facilitate the finishing blow" whether by oneself or another as a point, even if the finishing blow was someone else's. But I'm thinking in this case in terms of a functional model for competition that as closely as possible simulates some kind of real conditions, be they battlefield or dueling or ringkunst only.

Jason