Fechtbuchleinn work out there?

[Bob Foster]

Hey everybody, long time listener; first time caller...
Sorry if this subject has come up before; I did a quick search and didn't see anything, but computers are still powered by Black Magic in my peabrain.

Anyway, I've found myself with a little spare time of late and thought I'd take a look at the longsword portion of the Codex Guelf 1074 Novi (Fechtbuchleinn) since it appeared that only the transcription is available (Dierk Hagedorn's on Hammaborg website and Alex Kiermeyer's on Wiktenauer), I thought it would be fun to give it a crack...
Well, needless to say, it didn't take too long to realize how really strange some of the turns of phrase and structuring of explanations are. (afterall, if it was easy, someone would have already done it, right?) Thus, I was wondering if anyone else out there has done any work (even just translating to modern Hochdeutsch...Dierk?) on this thing before I continue to struggle all by my lonesome.
Thanks!

[Bob Foster]

Ok, well; Airborne then. So, once I get more than just the occasional chunk lucid (if still wide open for interpretation), I'll toss it out here and let you guys share your thoughts on it.

Horidoh

[Keith P. Myers]

Hey Bob!

I'm not familiar with it. Do you have a link for it?

[Bob Foster]

Moin, Keith -

If you go to the Wiktenauer or Hammaborg website, it's under Codex Guelf 1074 Novi; common name "Fechtbuchleinn." The original is in the Herzog-August library in Wolfenbüttel and as far as I've been able to find, only transcriptions (thanks to Dierk Hagedorn) are available.

The whole thing is pretty short (1v-12v) and without illustration as far as I can tell and according to Wiktenauer is dated to the 16th century...More hard data I have not. Pages 1v-6v appear to deal with the longsword (Schwerdtt) and the remainder with the Dusack (Tisseckenn). I have only bothered to take a look at the longsword portion, since I can't even spell dusack (of course, neither could the author of this text...).

The terms and methods of explaining actions within the text are somewhat "odd" as opposed to the other German sources at which I've taken a gander and the thing seems to me to be more of a set of class notes than anything else.

Really, I just got curious and thought it would be a fun exercise in linguistics. I am confident that if the text were either easy to interpret or significant in its content that someone would have already taken the time to work on it. Thus, I've just been sort of pecking away at it in my free time at work to keep me busy. I ought to have at least enough to post some initial thoughts in the next few days and I really do look forward to hearing others' thoughts.

[Keith P. Myers]

Ok. I found the transcription on the Hammaborg site. The Wiktenauer doesn't have much on it yet, but the link to the ARMA site shows some of the illustrations that go with the manual. Its the "chubby guys" doing longsword and dusack. The language does look like Early New High German and not the older dialectical version. Remember that spelling was not exactly standardized. Often you have better luck figuring out a word by sounding it out, thinking of alternate spellings and then looking that word up. If you get stumped by something let me know and maybe I'll be able to help you out. A long time ago I printed out Jeffrey Forgeng's ENHG glossary and I have been adding to it ever since as I work out the meaning of words that he didn't include. So my own Forgeng/Myers ENHG glossary is close to twice the size of his original. But it made for a good starting point!

Having a transcription to work from helps alot. Often deciphering the handwriting from these manuals is harder than translating the language! So give it a shot! You may find it an intriguing but rewarding challenge. Just be sure and pass your work on to Michael Chidester so he can put it up on the Wiktenauer for others to benefit from.

[James Wallhausen]

Hey everybody, long time listener; first time caller...
Sorry if this subject has come up before; I did a quick search and didn't see anything, but computers are still powered by Black Magic in my peabrain.

Anyway, I've found myself with a little spare time of late and thought I'd take a look at the longsword portion of the Codex Guelf 1074 Novi (Fechtbuchleinn) since it appeared that only the transcription is available (Dierk Hagedorn's on Hammaborg website and Alex Kiermeyer's on Wiktenauer), I thought it would be fun to give it a crack...
Well, needless to say, it didn't take too long to realize how really strange some of the turns of phrase and structuring of explanations are. (afterall, if it was easy, someone would have already done it, right?) Thus, I was wondering if anyone else out there has done any work (even just translating to modern Hochdeutsch...Dierk?) on this thing before I continue to struggle all by my lonesome.
Thanks!

Hi Bob,

I missed this post previously. I translated this little manuscript about a year ago. I'll PM you my version, as it might come in useful.

All the best

James

[Bob Foster]

James,
Thanks man, that'd be great; looking forward to it.

Keith,
Ya know, I didn't even think about checking the ARMA site (of course no one's ever accused me of being brilliant); I'll definately give that a look today. As for self-transcription, that's a bit beyond me for now at least. I know Dierk (he's our longsword instructor at Hammaborg) and that cat can read the old script as fast as a modern newspaper; no no worries there on my side.
Per the odd spellings and archaic words, roger that; I was tracking. What threw me off more with the Fechtuchleinn was using different terms in many cases for common items (Kreuz for Bind rather than hilt, Schneidt for Klinge, etc.) and his structure of explanation; for instance jumping through various tenses within a single action...very distracting. So far though, I've only gone running to the ENHG dictionary a couple of times (both without revelation) when trying to find options for meaning (through different spelling options) for some words.
Of course, while just translating the work into modern German or English is one step, trying to make sense of the thing is the other fun part. Maybe I'll get some open time today to get through the last little bit of the first section (The Gänge/Actions of the Sword) to at least try to proof some of my assumptions on meaning; if so, I'll post my so-far.

Horridoh!

[Michael Chidester]

Ok. I found the transcription on the Hammaborg site. The Wiktenauer doesn't have much on it yet, but the link to the ARMA site shows some of the illustrations that go with the manual. Its the "chubby guys" doing longsword and dusack. .

Not so. You're confusing the Codex Guelf 1074.Novi with the Codex Guelf 83.4 August 8°.

[Keith P. Myers]

Ok. I found the transcription on the Hammaborg site. The Wiktenauer doesn't have much on it yet, but the link to the ARMA site shows some of the illustrations that go with the manual. Its the "chubby guys" doing longsword and dusack. .

Not so. You're confusing the Codex Guelf 1074.Novi with the Codex Guelf 83.4 August 8°.

Ah! You are right! Thanks for the correction!

[Roland Warzecha]

Hey Bob,

great to meet you here. Dierk will be delighted to find out that you started working with the sources!
Very cool.

See you on Wednesday for training!

Roland