Cutting questions

[Mike Edelson]

Why would bone in meat be harder or dry out just because the animal is dead?

I can answer this question. The short version is that bone, and all the other tissues are alive. When the animal dies, so do the tissues.

That means that the osteoblasts, chondroblasts and fibroblasts all die. These cells are constantly holding back the degradation process that naturally occurs to live tissue. They do this by building new cells and connective tissue like collagen. New cells and connective tissue must constantly be made simply for the tissue not to lose strength.

Bone is a matrix primarily of two substances: hydroxyapatite and collagen. Each provides it's own advantages, and together they make the bone better than it would be with only one or the other. Just like with alloying metals. The apatite is the calcium-phosphate mineral part of bone. It's a basically a brittle rock. The collagen is added to make it springy as well. Like the difference between spring tempered steel and cast pig iron.

Once the animal is dead the collagen producing cells die as well. And so the springy aspect of bone degrades. What's left is brittle rock.

Different treatment of the carcass will alter the rate of degradation, but cannot halt it. The animal is dead, therefore entropy wins.

The same degradation happens to skin, joint tissues, fascia and muscles. Dead animals rapidly become unlike live animals in terms of material properties.

Dead pigs may be used for testing purposes, but that doesn't mean that the testers think a dead pig is the same as a live human. Only, that a meaningful correlation has been established. Unless we too have the data for that correlation we can't make meaningful comparisons between dead pig and live human.

This isn't different from test cutting tatami. Tatami is not a live person. But a meaningful correlation between a live human and tatami has been established, therefore allowing testing that is informative.

There is a clear difference between:"We can learn something useful from this test" and "This test perfectly simulates our situation". The first is normal science and useful. The second just doesn't happen.

Cheers,
Steven

Yeah! He told you! Ha!

Hydrowhatsit and college. I wents to college.

[Steven H]

Don't get too excited Mike. I don't know the rate or severity of degradation, or what degree it is slowed or altered. Only that it must happen.

-(The inveterate scientist) Steven

[Mike Edelson]

Don't get too excited Mike. I don't know the rate or severity of degradation, or what degree it is slowed or altered. Only that it must happen.

-(The inveterate scientist) Steven

Well I don't really care about the rate, I know that supermarket meat=very hard bones. Freshly killed meat = not so hard bones. Beyond that, who cares?

[Bill Welch]

Don't get too excited Mike. I don't know the rate or severity of degradation, or what degree it is slowed or altered. Only that it must happen.

-(The inveterate scientist) Steven

Well I don't really care about the rate, I know that supermarket meat=very hard bones. Freshly killed meat = not so hard bones. Beyond that, who cares?

Yes freshly killed has softer bones, my contention was not that, mine was Dead=hard bones. But I can see where that line was picked up, I suppose I didn't specify. But still dead doesn't equal rock hard bones.....

I get all the meat I cut from Lays just up the road 15 min away or less, and they were walking the day I get them.

[Mike Edelson]

Don't get too excited Mike. I don't know the rate or severity of degradation, or what degree it is slowed or altered. Only that it must happen.

-(The inveterate scientist) Steven

Well I don't really care about the rate, I know that supermarket meat=very hard bones. Freshly killed meat = not so hard bones. Beyond that, who cares?

Yes freshly killed has softer bones, my contention was not that, mine was Dead=hard bones. But I can see where that line was picked up, I suppose I didn't specify. But still dead doesn't equal rock hard bones.....

I get all the meat I cut from Lays just up the road 15 min away or less, and they were walking the day I get them.

That's the internets for you.