Breaking Guards

[Christian H. Tobler]

Hey Cory,

I was just thinking how plates 3 & 4 are reminiscent of Kal's showing generic 'breaking of the openings' in a couple of back-to-back plates, along with the verses preceeding the Duplieren and Mutieren stuff.

All the best,

Christian

[Mike Edelson]

There's a new (to me) Krumphau mechanic I've been playing with. It's hard to explain, but I'll give it a shot. The way I've been doing krump, the way everyone I know has been doing it, is like a windshield wiper that cuts from above at an angle that is like a downward slope away from you (like the krump in our cutting video on our website index page). Lately I've been messing around with a krump that is more like a horizontal cut with the blade angled upwards. It still ends up with crossed hands fromt he right, but is much, much quicker from schrankhut (can't be done from vom tag, or at least I haven't figured out how).

The point is, if you do krump this way, it will match plate 6 as perfectly as you can expect artwork to match reality. I find this interesting.

[Cory Winslow]

Hey Christian,

I noticed that too. Those plates have always intrigued me. It seems to me that plate 4 in Goliath is Zulegen/Eekomen to counter Duplieren from the left, but I can't be sure.

-Cory

[Christian H. Tobler]

I might be misunderstanding you Mike, but are you saying your Krump doesn't cut downward? If so, I'd say that's a problem - 3227a explicitly describes the Krumphau as an Oberhau.

If instead, you're striking down and towards him (obliquely), then I can see it both working and fulfilling the text.

All the best,

CHT

[Christian H. Tobler]

@Cory - Oh! That's an interesting idea...quite possibly, yes.

@Everyone - An interesting corollary to breaking Ochs with Krump is that it's done differently with the messer. When you break the (left) Stier, you attack his messer then wind immediately to his face? This is reflected in both Leckuchner's verse and gloss. It's no longer "Strike crooked nimbly, throw the point on the hands", it's "Awaken nimbly, turn the point to the face".

Why the change? It's because of measure. No matter how aggressively you step, you can't safely target the hands with the messer - the weapon's too short and you can't step past the point: it'll still be before you, and the messer's faster in the Krieg to boot. So instead you must bind and account for his weapon and work with the winding.

It's always a useful exercise to compare equivalent techniques and analyze *why* they're different for different weapons.

All the best,

CHT

[Mike Edelson]

I might be misunderstanding you Mike, but are you saying your Krump doesn't cut downward? If so, I'd say that's a problem - 3227a explicitly describes the Krumphau as an Oberhau.

If instead, you're striking down and towards him (obliquely), then I can see it both working and fulfilling the text.

All the best,

CHT

Hi Christian,

It cuts down, eventually, but it is also effective at any point in the arc. I never meant for this mechanic to replace the other one, merely to be used in addition to it. The reason I like it is it makes the krumphau significantly faster from schrankhut and therefore more effective from that guard. It also pushes the oncomming blade directly away from you (when striking the blade or hands) making it safer. Finally, it is easier to maintain edge alignment throughout the full arc.

I'd say it's no more or less of an oberhau than the regular krumphau from schrankhut.

[Christian H. Tobler]

Hey again Cory,

I'm also convinced the plates are, in some cases, just grossly wrong. Look at the one for cutting a Zwerch under his to his neck. The Glasgow illustration makes sense; the one in Goliath doesn't even show a Zwerch and is a great way to achieve a double-kill!

Cheers,

CHT

[Christian H. Tobler]

Mike E.,

Ok, I understand - thanks for clearing that up.

Cheers,

CHT

[Christian H. Tobler]

One more item before I toddle off to bed...

There's an interesting tactical difference between breaking Ochs using vom Tag as the starting point vs. using Schranckhut. The stroke from vom Tag is faster, but you have to work harder to get outside his Ochs. Conversely, the stroke from Schranckhut is slower (longer arc), but you're already outside his guard.

Mix and match, season to taste.

CHT

[Mike Edelson]

Conversely, the stroke from Schranckhut is slower (longer arc), but you're already outside his guard.

Not if you use my new mechanic.

It's actually faster than the one from vom tag.