Why The Front Kick?

Discussion of historical combat techniques and their application.

Re: Why The Front Kick?

Postby Keith P. Myers » Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:16 pm

Oh and let's not forget this demo of it from the current HEMA King of Sparta:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsX9i-v8 ... e=youtu.be


Ah yes! Eric "gut-kickin" Wiggins. I watched him use this very effectively at FA 2012. I had to check out one of the guys from Mexico who ended up on the receiving end. We had to give him about 10 minutes to recover before he could go on with the bout.

Mike:
Short and simple: You come to the bind from the Oberhau, then immediately push forward and up to make the opponent lift his sword and lean back a bit, as you do a forward thrusting kick right to the solar plexus.....right out of Talhoffer!
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Re: Why The Front Kick?

Postby Mike Ruhala » Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:40 pm

Thanks for the replies, gives me stuff to think about. I don't believe I'll ever become a big kicker and I'm more worried about ringen right now but I'll try some of this stuff out from time to time.
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Re: Why The Front Kick?

Postby Danny P » Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:52 pm

A few thoughts on the question at hand coming from the point of view of an unarmed martial artist who has only relatively recently (in the last couple of years) transitioned to European sword arts:

While the side kick is (often) more powerful it leaves the attacker far more open to counter attacks - particularly off balancing in either direction along the lateral line, or movements out to the attacker's rear (as the hips are side-on during the course of the attack). This is particularly true if the counter is a ringen manoeuvre - many of the wrestling techniques seen across the sources would be ideal, in fact.

Similarly continuing the offence, or retreating in defence, is difficult with a side kick as the feet are off their normal line of movement, as are the hips, making transitions in motion difficult (and in some cases entirely impractical).

Put together this means that a side-kick is a technique which can only be employed under certain circumstances with full effectiveness - a notion borne out by the relative infrequency of side-kicks in full contact unarmed bouts when compared to the front kick.

Conversely, the front kick is by far the most versatile kick and is frequently seen in most all martial art. It can be used to distract in readiness for a follow up, to create space by pushing the opponent back, or to actively damage the opponent. If it is interrupted it can quickly be turned into a passing step, and it is a natural movement which doesn't rely on the flexibility that a side kick does.

Also, because the hips are not off-line the sword in the hands is still in a position of readiness and can be used to simultaneously attack or defend while kicking, and even acts as a passive defence and major distraction during the course of the kick.

Front kicks can be delivered in an arc motion (generally notable as groin kicks) - though occasionally higher arcing kicks are seen, particularly in Chinese martial arts. However, these are much easier to avoid than a thrusting kick action (the fixed arc is easy to predict and move out of range), and have a more limited range of targets (groin, inner thigh, chin, etc). Swinging kicks are also less versatile as they impart momentul which is difficult to control and mutate into other techniques, and which interferes with the action of the hands, particulary when using a sword.

All things considered, using a sword in combat is taxing enough without having to slot in kicks for esoteric situations - for a simple go-to technique which can be relied upon, front-kick is king.

Edit: had to add this:

Image
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Re: Why The Front Kick?

Postby Joey Nitti » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:55 pm

man, you don't have a profile pic yet. Why isn't that your profile pic? DO IT!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

I gotta maybe try a front kick against a certain training partner of mine who is a fan of pressing forward and shoving in from the bind
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Re: Why The Front Kick?

Postby Aaron Pynenberg » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:34 pm

I think you just upset the Martial Arts gods by showing an image of Chuck Norris being upended by our ancestor! Watch out man, Chuck Norris is so tough his image can even crush you.

Here is another clip of the front kick used in sparring, this time I just kind of clip him in the side wall of his chest but it puts him down pretty hard, (actually knocked the wind out of him) -this is also a good clip for those that believe the sword stroke has momentum of it's own and that it will just "carry on" even if it is interupted somehow.

In my expirence all blows, be they punches, kicks, knife thrusts, and especially sword blows need the user to carry the motion through from a stable platform for it to have any deadly meaning.

https://vimeo.com/46014828

later-! AP
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Re: Why The Front Kick?

Postby Keith P. Myers » Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:05 am

Joey Nitti wrote:man, you don't have a profile pic yet. Why isn't that your profile pic? DO IT!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:



Yeah, that's pretty awesome! ;)
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Re: Why The Front Kick?

Postby Tim Hamilton » Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:19 pm

from MA experience I would limit any kicks to the knee or below, knee to groin or behind opponents knee joint to help unbalance him, and after that keep the feet on the floor, as per reasons stated above... it is very easy to have your leg swept away, and anyway you can punch to groin and above, so why bother doing high kicks, especially if you have a weapon. I think most of us would naturally cut at something swinging up that high anyway, but balance is a lot easier with your feet on the floor...
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Re: Why The Front Kick?

Postby Mike Ruhala » Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:25 pm

Well, so far only one person has actually kicked me during a fight. He may have been holding back, I don't know, but mostly it just made me giggle. Of course that's also the reaction I had to getting hit in an unprotected elbow and finding a live angry bee in my mask while I was wearing it so take that for what it's worth! :lol: Honestly though I don't think I'm going to put too much effort into kicks at this time, I'll focus on bladework and ringen am schwert instead.
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Re: Why The Front Kick?

Postby Chris Thompson » Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:12 am

The front kick effectively prevents the opponent from closing without compromising your stance. I don't think it's really intended to hurt the other guy, you've got a big sword for that. It's a "no you don't" tactic.
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Re: Why The Front Kick?

Postby Ben Floyd » Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:47 am

Chris Thompson wrote:The front kick effectively prevents the opponent from closing without compromising your stance. I don't think it's really intended to hurt the other guy, you've got a big sword for that. It's a "no you don't" tactic.


I don't agree with that. I was able to schnit and torque Eric on the clavicle with enough force to throw him out of the ring in the finals at FA2012 after he threw a kick. It only worked because he was on one leg... id est, a compromised stance. Although, I wasn't closing until after the kick landed, I think. I can't look at the vid at work, but I think I stepped with the press. I can't get the video link right now to show you what I mean, either. Just look up the Fechtschule America 2012 longsword fight. There were three landed kicks. I'm talking about the last one.
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