Hi, Keith! Thanks for the welcome
. Considering how many pdfs I have lying around right now with your name on them, I have to say, "thanks!" also for the research help.
Real name= Javier De Jesus Bermudez Prado.. or, JD Bermudez works.
Note on terms: I'm going to use "kampfringen" for the martial art, whereas I'll use "Ringkunst" as the sporting rule-set.
I appreciate what you're saying as regards ground-fighting, but you'll notice in my comment I was speaking to the (perhaps mistaken) perception that we were discussing limiting the amount of time spent at range. I was probably unclear as it was dirty late when I wrote it. What I meant by "at range" is at the extremity of striking distance as opposed to the clinch, which I'll readily admit is where the bulk of the manuals spend their time.
That makes sense to me, since a) there are only so many attacks you can make at range, and b) they are less mechanically complicated than throws, breaks and locks, so they require less elucidation.
However, by making artificial requirements that the opponents in a bout close to grappling range, we're changing the nature of the fight unnaturally, which I object to. If a guy wants to throw nothing but belly-kicks and jabs, that's fine by me... that just means his adversary needs to close and throw him to the ground.
I would score throws and locks higher than I would strikes (unless the strikes result in a KO) because they open the door for a conclusion. So while KO might be hard to achieve, a good grapple that places the opponent in a position that exposes him to a "finishing move" could, in my eyes, end the bout quite satisfactorily. You'll see guys close inside range and grapple more, but you're not making it mandatory- Frankly, in a real brawl, I want to close, throw/break/lock a guy up anyways... an opponent that still has the ability to move and hurt me is less desirable than one who is whimpering on the ground because I'm doing ungentlemanly things to his shoulder. From a sportive perspective, I want to go for that tap-out or that ability to say, "You're Dead, Sir" when the desired exposure is attained and I mime a finishing maneuver (throat-chop, brachial stun, rabbit-punch). But by not making it mandatory, you're allowing the good strikers out there a chance to provide a good training exercise for the grapplers (and vice versa).
That said, I agree re: not going "to the ground" if it can be avoided. It is a dangerous and undesirable place to be. The Meisters seemed to prefer a good Wag/Stable Base/"Interview Stance" above all. The first thing you are taught in modern combatives is to get your head up ASAP- being on the ground means your assailant's friend can come along and stomp you into next Tuesday. Also, rolling around, means that he can hurt you at least as badly as you can hurt him- just like with the "stand-up" fight. That's also why MCMAP/MACP/CF CQC, as well as the manuals, don't teach high, fancy kicks like some of the Eastern arts... kicking a guy in the head is nice and all, but I'll keep my stable base, thanks. I want to get back to Wag as quickly as possible and stay off the ground. That's a key theme of the manuals, as you say.
From a sportive perspective, maybe only "substantial" blows (that is, blows that rock the opponent, knock him down, knock him out) should be scored. Throws would be scored equally with these blows if they did not lead to a conclusion ie. "that's nice, son, but he's still capable of attacking you". Making a guy tap, knocking him out, TKOs, and creating an opening for a "conclusion" would be the ways to score a clear (ie., not decision) victory. Too much time spent on the ground could perhaps penalize points, making it harder to gain a decision victory should it come to that (this would avoid excessive "ground and pound" scenarios)...
Just thoughts... I want to keep kampfringen vital, and "martial" in nature, while still making it a dynamic and exciting sport when we bout under ringkunst rules... I do not see the two as mutually exclusive, I just want any ringkunst rules that we employ to keep eachother safe and to keep the flavour of kampfringen distinct, not to impede its "aliveness".
I am a little short on sleep, so I apologize if I rambled..