Best Model for a "Group" in Washinton State

[Odysseus G Osborne]

Hello friends.
I'm hoping that a number of friends will chime in here to let me have some good advice. As some of you know, I'm not from the US system of things, I'm from the UK and I struggle with the way things are here on a daily basis when I'm dealing with the US way of thinking. When I got here, I realised I was in a fix, cars were on the other side of the road and the biggest truck had the right of way even over pedestrians, light switches went the other way, switches generally were the other way meaning I'd be switching things off that should have been on and things on that should never ever be turned on. It goes on, I have come across many physical and cultural things that are simply "the other way up" like its the mirror image of my homeland, including technical drawings which are in the opposite projection. So I seem to be from some strange mirror image world in lots of things.

Anyway...

I have been looking at starting a secular group and have had permission from my old friend in the UK to set up a twin club/US chapter of the BFHS Glamorgan School of Arms. The site is here, but it needs more population with our info. More arriving soon. https://sites.google.com/site/glamorganschoolofarmsusa/

We have run into lots of technical problems with inane local juntas, the legislation freaks who have proven to be inscrutable in their thinking. So I have to come to you guys and hope to squeeze some information from you, those who have had to go through a similar set up process.

We are setting up a private club, and we are not taking lesson or session fees. We are hoping to charge an annual membership fee only, which in WA state is code 136 E (Exempt) as a taxable service. So our annual memberships will fund the groups activity, we still plan to keep full account books, a petty cash box, and a bank account for the deposit of cheques.

So we don't have to register it as a business...I believe anyway to the best of the information I have, because it fails the benchmark:

1) doesn't sell taxable goods or services to consumers
2) doesn't expect to earn more than 12k per year
3) will not have employees within 90 days
4) will not use a name different to the owner or corporation name.

4 might be a problem, but thinking about it, Glamorgan School of Arms isn't the owner's name as a CLUB doesn't have an owner, right? Or am I getting this wrong? So the club is an entity apart from me or anyone else?

This really seems to deviate from the Dojo model where there's a Master charging lesson fees and this is then private income for the master's school, of which he is the owner.

I guess "Sole proprietor" and "LLC" seem to be the popular models for the Dojo's I've come across. Can the CLUB model work as an unregistered entity for HEMA ? Or is 501(c) 3 the best route, or even 501 (c) 7 (Social Recreational Clubs)?

For someone from the outside, just figuring out the basics is incredibly frustrating.

Any advice from established organisers much appreciated.

Thank you.

[Odysseus G Osborne]

Come to think of it, we might need to prepare a pamphlet on how to set up a HEMA group when we have all done.

[Richard Marsden]

Hello,

HEMA affiliation gets you 503 status. I used that to get set up in Arizona when finding a facility. The key concerns of venues I find isn't our status, so much as our insurance and if they can get their name on it.

States have different rules so I'm unsure how to address your specific questions.

Things to consider
1 = Are you selling 'things' that could ever be taxed?
2 = Are you going to deduct anything from your taxes?
3 = Do you have a facility, rent a facility, or go to a park?

Good luck on this one!

Oh, Mike Edelson might know more or can point you to who does. He handles membership and insurance dues and helped our group out figure out our non-profit status. PM him with specific questions!

[Odysseus G Osborne]

HEMA affiliation gets you 503 status. I used that to get set up in Arizona when finding a facility. The key concerns of venues I find isn't our status, so much as our insurance and if they can get their name on it. Oh, Mike Edelson might know more or can point you to who does. He handles membership and insurance dues and helped our group out figure out our non-profit status. PM him with specific questions!

Okay...this is obviously very close to what we are looking for...so you mean affiliation with the HEMA Alliance? I take it that you do mean that, and that would be better for us. We'd need to know more about what this would entail, cost wise. The proposed group has few potential members, it's not like we have the members and are becoming an official club. We have to build. Our other group, Athetyr is doing very well, numbers are small, we have 4 members but they are very keen and share all our extra interests as well.

The proposed Glam. School would be for anyone of course.

I heard that we'd need 5 members to become an affiliate club? How would we document our affiliation?

[Richard Marsden]

Someone will correct me if I lead you astray, but let me give it a shot.

http://hemaalliance.com/?page_id=33
Individual membership to the HEMA Alliance, and what it gets you.

http://hemaalliance.com/?page_id=38
How to get your group affiliated with the HEMA Alliance.

http://hemaalliance.com/?page_id=1019
How insurance is handled and purchased for you and others. Insurance is separate from membership and affiliation.

You do NOT need a huge group to be affiliated. Most HEMA groups are not large, but are small, dedicated groups of people. The insurance is cheap and bought in blocks of five and is renewed on a yearly basis. The membership, which I believe only one of you needs, can be purchased yearly, or if you're with us for the long-haul, can be done through a life-time membership. Members have a few forms to fill out that you keep found here.
https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/image ... QYEmrqyX4A
General Waiver
http://hemaalliance.com/documents/HEMA% ... Waiver.pdf
Supplementary Waiver

And that should be about it.

In my case, I'm a HEMA Alliance lifetime member. I paid a fee and that's done.
My group is an affiliate.
Every year I buy insurance for myself and the group.

As a member and as an affiliate with insurance we have 503 status which helped us land our spot at the Irish Cultural Center in Phoenix for the summer!


Best wishes.

[Odysseus G Osborne]

Thank you very much Richard. Affiliating with HEMA Alliance will save me vast amounts of irritation here, as getting 503(c) will mean we cannot be billed for Business licenses, which would be Washington State Licence ($20 +$5=$25) plus a Kent City Licence ($155) plus a Kent City Home Occupation License ($51) = $231 and that's without filing extra for Non profit, which is another $50 if we went that route. But it may be that we would still have to apply for a licence to operate here as an existing 503 regardless, and then apply for the other licenses too, but we wouldn't have to pay the fees for those extraneous licenses.

I just think its strange that the issue that's really in play here isn't only the grab for cash from the local town hall, but the assumption that a license gives them a sense of power over an organisation.

You know, it really seems ludicrous stuff to me that all these states operate essentially independently, and then cities too, reinventing the wheel and doing the same work x50+ instead of once. Call me a federalist.

I need to think over this now, but I think the insurance is a big plus purely for credibility reasons.

Thanks again.

[Jeffrey Hull]

Oz: I have no advice to offer, but I do like that your Glamorgan website offers the helpful and appealing layout of recommended fencing safety gear and projected costs for such.

[Odysseus G Osborne]

Well, at the moment I'm writing out a club constitution and rule set, trying to say what is needed in as few a terms as possible.

We have some reading to do. I've ordered "How to set up and run a martial arts club" - to see how others might be doing it, dirt cheap 2nd hand book off amazon.

Question:
We were also wondering what the block of 5 insurances would mean, and basically, how we'd allocate them. If we have 5 members and 2 say drop out, are those 2 members insurance simply transferable to the new members when they arrive?

Do we need to make members fill out a HEMA Alliance waiver as well as our own club waiver?

Thanks

[Richard Marsden]

I will try my hand again at this. My apologies if I lead you astray.

The block of 5 insurance is for your club. They do not go to individual members. So people can come and go, and so long as you're under 5 your in the clear. Think you have 6-8 members showing up? Get the block of 10 instead and be covered. Price is very low.

The waivers I linked need to be for every member since they'll be using the insurance when they are at your event.

Your event (which is your training days) needs to be official and posted here.
viewforum.php?f=11

And read this in particular as to how to do that.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=310

It is up to you if the members of your club have to sign anything else.

As for running a marital arts club. I'll PM you some 'stuff' I gleaned from the Asian Martial Arts Dojos we've talked to.

[Odysseus G Osborne]

Hello friends...
I've been quiet for a while putting together two club documents. That is, a constitution, bylaws and regs...for TWO clubs. Our existing group here, which is private and does other non hema things as well, would like to affiliate with the alliance also, so we are considering a lot at the moment.

A question for someone in the know here; We would need a bank account for the club and would need an EIN. As affiliates, would we still need our own EIN number as we can't give out the alliance number. ?? That's fair enough as it seems fairly strange to me. So if we need an EIN, we'd still need to register a club with the state anyway to get our EIN....

I don't know how it is here. It is all very nephronous and twisty. How have other affiliated clubs opened bank accounts for their club? Did they have to register with the state for an EIN?

Blessings.

BTW, our fledgling private group is up to 5 Sword & Buckler members after a year. Getting there slowly.