Lastly, for now, I'm also concerned about some of the attitudes that keep recurring regarding "athleticism". What? Really? Athleticism in sword arts is somehow a bad thing? Historical fencers were all a bunch of fat slow merchants who simply had some magickal "Arte" to protect them? Sorry, but that's just horseshit. Athleticism in high level fencers is both fundamental and essential.
i do not remember ever saying anything about athleticism being bad, please do not attempt to put words in my mouth.I love athleticism in any art but that is not nor was it ever my point.
I am rather surprised that noone has tried to delve into the meaning of the word Buffel and why we must avoid being like the Buffalos? That is after all the point of my thread. There were two let me lay them out one more time before this gets off topic.
Point 1. Buffalos are whackers, simply jumping in and whacking people is not the art, this is told to us in many ways. My point was simply to bring attention to this and thereby not turn a blind eye to the obvious injuries and so forth going on at tournaments because peopel are trying to prove skill by applying too much speed and power. There is no reason for this and I think the whole reason is not everyone has enough skill to play fast and hard, that causes injuries. There is power and athleticism in the art no doubt but that is not the art, the art is much much more and the athleticism fits over the art not the other way around.
Point 2. I don't see enough of the art in tournaments or in most freeplay (including our own)
I am not going to sit here and pick out examples in videos, that is absurd and besides the point. Let me put it to you this way, how many guards do you see in your average tournament? or even average freeplay.
Not enough IMHO. If you deny that Scott then please do tell me where all the other guards are? I am not even talking about handworks or master strikes here just guards. So if even the simplest forms of the art are not showing up no wonder many other aspects of it are not.
Now whats the point of these talking points? is it to decry tournaments or to rail against athleticism? not at all and frankly its kind of proving my point for you to ignore my actual points, by telling me to shut up unless I go to tournaments you are already placing Tournaments above everything else in HEMA and measuring everything by that. Which is precisly my point, tournaments are nothing but another tool for us to use, but placing it above all other tools makes HEMA subservient to Tournaments which is absolutly wrong. For starters we are not holding fechtschule events we are making our own fight events, we are not on thier level of intent or skill.
This is a simple discussion to better make tournaments serve HEMA, or at least ours so please don't try to drag this down into some us vs Athleticism argument or us vs tournaments argument.
Stick to the points
what is a buffalo and why must we avoid it?
Why is the art not showing up more?
i would say off the top of my head more of the art does not show up because noone seems to care, everyone seems to be arguing that its there but i can make a fairly solid argument out of the guards not being present all by myself without videos.
if you think this issue is not worth discussing so be it, but don't act Like we are trying to drag anything down we are simply trying to counter certain bad habits in HEMA, that is all.
And just for the record telling me I do not go to tournaments so i should sit down and shut up is not really doing much for your case. Firstly I fight all the time, secondly these are not real fechtschule events.
We at the MFFG train periodically without any masks or gloves or other protective gear as we freeplay with steel. This I think helps us develop solid principlaes and basics. It is just a tool in the art however, we are not putting as much on the line as they did in the 16th cent. So i would never disqualify someones opinion because they did not do that , that would be me putting the highest value on what we do in an effort to effect preceptions of legitimacy. Its just another tool, like freeplay or drilling or whatever same as tournaments, great fun and great for testing under pressure but not what they did so lets not put too much into it. lets try to tweak the rules a bit maybe to get more art in the fighting(As i hear you did in one of your recent tournaments Scott)
certainly if we put our heads under a rock over it and examine it not we will not improve the tool. We are not slamming anything much less tournaments. For the upteenth time I will say that I like tournaments and will get to some when i can, no problem with them at all.
as for other folsk posting here, we are very much appreciative of any external input so never fear comeing here to chat or to tell us we are wrong about something, it all strengthens the guild.