What is Mair All About?

Discussions about manual study, translations, philology, historical research, and similar topics.

Re: What is Mair All About?

Postby Michael Chidester » Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:25 pm

Myles Cupp wrote:Don't get me wrong. I'm not meaning to disparage Wallerstein by my use of that phrasing; I'm actually trying to reflect what some passages of the book almost literally say in the translation (Zabinski) I have in my lap.
Next, one more trick: if you strike at his elbow and he defends... etc etc etc

"Trick" is a famously bad translation of 'stuck'. More properly, it means "piece", although "technique" and "device" are also popular.

A) Does he name the meisterhau or discuss them?

Yes.

B) Does he provide a recapitulation of the Lichtenauer markverse?

He quotes the anonymous gloss in its entirety.

C) Does he mention Lichtenauer at all?

Yes.

D) Does he offer up any credentials about who taught him or his martial background? That is, Paulus Kal gave us the list of the Society of Lichtenauer and put his own teacher on it. Fiore talks about his teacher. Ringeck credits Lichtenauer in the tradition at least.

Mair was not a master, and potentially didn't even fence at all.
Last edited by Michael Chidester on Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
Michael Chidester
Director, Wiktenauer Project
Member, Western Martial Arts Coalition
Lifetime Member, HEMA Alliance
User avatar
Michael Chidester
Wiktenauer Project Director
 
Posts: 1706
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:19 pm
Location: Brighton, MA

Re: What is Mair All About?

Postby Richard Marsden » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:21 pm

@Myles

Very tall heels!

As for the mounted section it is hard for me to say anything with credibility. I would need to do more research and understand the text to give an opinion on it. I am interested in texts dealing with mounted warfare, both specific military techniques as well as judicial, jousting etc. I am very interested by the portrayals of mounted man vs foot! Thanks for sharing.
User avatar
Richard Marsden
HEMA Alliance Member
 
Posts: 1701
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:17 pm
Location: Phoenix Arizona

Re: What is Mair All About?

Postby KeithFarrell » Sat Jul 09, 2011 3:00 am

Myles Cupp wrote:
Richard Marsden wrote:@Myles Cup

Fancy-Pants
The time period between Mair's images and Talhoffer may account for the difference in dress. In the case of the plain-looking Talhoffer images look at their shoes. Those long, pointed shoes were something that the nobility (or wannabe nobility) wore. The dress, I would contend, is 'nice' for the time-period.


Which would of course make sense. I suppose the "niceness" in my mind modern eyes is the difference perhaps in time periods between the Late Middle Ages and the Northern Renaissance. Like I said, I'm no fashion expert so I am glad I posed the question. I know a bit more now. :)



Just so happens that yesterday a post went up on our blog about fashions and "decorative textiles through the ages." I haven't yet had a chance to read it myself, but it was written by Liz Thacker who is one of our crafting instructors who spent quite a long time at university studying history, so I have no doubt it will be an excellent article that might help shed some light on this facet of history. It might even be somewhat useful to this discussion!

http://historical-academy.co.uk/blog/2011/07/07/its-always-been-about-fashion-decorative-textiles-through-the-ages/
-- Keith Farrell --
Corsair's Wares
Academy of Historical Arts
Triquetra Services (Scotland)
Charity registration number SC042086
User avatar
KeithFarrell
 
Posts: 522
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:02 am
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Re: What is Mair All About?

Postby Michael Chidester » Wed Jul 13, 2011 5:35 am

To give you a better sense of what Mair's all about, it's worth pointing out that in addition to the Anonymous Gloss (all three sections), Mair also includes Leckuechner's verse and gloss on the messer (which he treats as a dussack text), Ott's treatise on grappling, and Lignitzer's treatise on dagger, as well as additional dagger treatises that I haven't sourced yet. In the illustrated segments, we have Auerswald's grappling, the anonymous grappling from Egenolff, the longshield of Wallerstein, and the armored fencing of Gladiatoria. I suspect that most of his illustrated sections are drawn from a variety of sources scrambled together, so mapping out their component treatises will take a lot longer (if it's even worth doing at all).

And I still haven't pieced together a lot of the second volume, since my Latin's not as good as it used to be and the German versions aren't available.
Michael Chidester
Director, Wiktenauer Project
Member, Western Martial Arts Coalition
Lifetime Member, HEMA Alliance
User avatar
Michael Chidester
Wiktenauer Project Director
 
Posts: 1706
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:19 pm
Location: Brighton, MA

Re: What is Mair All About?

Postby Michael Chidester » Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:57 am

Now that I have volume 2 in German, I've pieced together this preliminary table of contents. This should give you a clearer idea of what Mair is "all about". There remain a few sections that I didn't recognize off-hand and will have to do some digging to place, those are indicated by question marks.

What's most interesting to me is all of the sections where he acquired uncaptioned manuscripts and provided his own text, notably part C of Codex Wallerstein and two of Joerg Wilhalm Hutter's manuscripts.

Code: Select all
  1r -  21v  Introduction by Paulus Hector Mair
 22r -  81v  Longsword by Paulus Hector Mair
 82r - 113r  Anonymous Gloss of Liechtenauer's Bloszfechten
114r - 135v  Dussack by Paulus Hector Mair
136r - 180v  "Dussack" by Johannes Leckuchner
181r - 199v  Staff by Paulus Hector Mair
200r - 211r  Halberd by Paulus Hector Mair
212r - 218v  Scythe by Paulus Hector Mair
219r - 222v  Flail by Paulus Hector Mair
223r - 226v  Peasant Staff by Paulus Hector Mair
227r - 232v  Mixed Weapons by Paulus Hector Mair
233r - 242v  Sickle by Paulus Hector Mair

  1r -  24v  Dagger by Paulus Hector Mair
 25r -  27r  Dagger by ???
 27v -  28v  Dagger by Andres Lignitzer
 29r -  55v  Dagger by ???
 56r - 111v  Grappling from Codex Wallerstein/Auerswald/Anonymous
112r - 123v  Grappling by Ott Jud
124r - 126r  Grappling by ???
126v - 136v  Grappling by ???
137r - 142v  Side Sword by Paulus Hector Mair
143r - 146r  Side Sword and Dagger by Paulus Hector Mair
147r - 161v  Sword and Buckler by Paulus Hector Mair (or Lutegerus?)
162r - 171v  Poleaxe by Paulus Hector Mair
172r - 178v  Armored Fencing from Codex Wallerstein/Jorg Wilhalm Hutter
179r - 181v  Longshield from Codex Wallerstein
182r - 199v  [Tournament Book?]
200r - 241r  Armored Fencing from Codex Wallerstein/Jorg Wilhalm Hutter
242r - 254r  Armored Fencing by Andres Lignitzer
254r - 262r  Armored Fencing by Martin Hundsfelder
262r - 266r  Armored Grappling by Martin Hundsfelder
267r - 297v  Mounted Fencing by Paulus Hector Mair/Jorg Wilhalm Hutter
298r - 327r  Anonymous Gloss of Liechtenauer's Roszfechten
328r         Closing by Paulus Hector Mair
Michael Chidester
Director, Wiktenauer Project
Member, Western Martial Arts Coalition
Lifetime Member, HEMA Alliance
User avatar
Michael Chidester
Wiktenauer Project Director
 
Posts: 1706
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:19 pm
Location: Brighton, MA

Re: What is Mair All About?

Postby Richard Marsden » Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:31 pm

Great work!

There are some excellent images in the links provided!
User avatar
Richard Marsden
HEMA Alliance Member
 
Posts: 1701
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:17 pm
Location: Phoenix Arizona

Previous

Return to Scholarship & Research