Stepping into the direction of the wind vs. out

[Jesse Eaton]

I've been looking at the Paulus Kal material a lot lately and it dawned on me that there are two subtly different ways to step into the wind. Either way, it is a step off line, but you can step into the direction you are winding or away from the direction. Kal shows a step into the wind:

http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/File:CGM_1507_59v.jpg

http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/File:CGM_1507_60r.jpg

Notice the relative change in the foot placement. Kal's opening sequence is Zorn v. Zornhau ort, versetzen v. "Nym oben abe one fare" (i.e. zucken), which puts the right side of his blade in a neutral bind with the right side of his opponents blade (the first pic). He then winds into right ox and steps into the wind (i.e. he steps in and to his right with a passing step of his left foot. At least that's what it looks like to me. It could also be that his opponent has backed up at an angle as well, but that would be a weird thing to do since there is no change in foot placement, he is still right foot forward and he wouldn't step toward the direction of the point directed at him.

I've been playing with this type of wind and I have a few observations. First, don't do this if your opponent has forward momentum, it is a strength game you'll lose if he holds the center. But, it is very good at closing off the line of attack and preventing the counter wind when the opponent is soft in the bind and especially if they attempt to leave the bind.

Has anyone else played with this difference? Am I missing some thing here or does this make sense to everyone else?

As a side note; against hard binds with forward momentum, I prefer a step away from the direction of the bind. This allows my opponent to continue his forward momentum while placing my point in his face. Why fight his momentum? Why not use it to good advantage?

[Keith P. Myers]

Hey Jesse!

He then winds into right ox and steps into the wind (i.e. he steps in and to his left with a passing step of his right foot. At least that's what it looks like to me.

---Did you mean to say a passing step of his "left foot"? Because his left foot is forward. I also have to wonder how accurate the artistic rending may be. It doesn't seem advisable to step straight in. Coming from a Mair/Meyer background, I would have stepped out to the left on an approximate 45 degree angle to get off-line from his point. If you look at the illustration in Kal, it sure looks to me like the opponent still has his blade on the center, and as a consequence, the guy doing the wind is aiming at his opponent's shoulder.

[ashultz]

At least two feet move between those two pictures, either both of red's or one of his going forward or back and both of his opponent's to maintain distance while keeping the same foot forward. Given that, and the difference in opponent (he grew a beard!) I can't really see those as a direct sequence.

The second picture also both visually implies that red has a good thrust set up with the sword to me and creates a geometric situation where that's impossible, since he is left of his opponent's center and his point is right with the opponent holding it away at the middle... that just doesn't line up. So either he's not thrusting but setting up to cut around again after a parry, or he is supposed to be in the background with his blade, or his opponent is actually turned so that red is actually all right of his center or on his center.

[Jesse Eaton]

Keith,

Yah, that's what I meant. A step to the right with the left foot (it is now edited for accuracy).

I'm not sure if it is the right shoulder, it could just as easily be the chest, though by the Merkverse, it should be the face. But he's nowhere near the face here. In the first pane he is right toe to right toe. In the second and third pane (http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/File:CGM_1507_60v.jpg) his left foot is forward and it is to the left of his opponents leading right foot. So, assuming these represent a linear series of actions, he has stepped in the direction he has wound, to his right. And it would seem that the consequence of this movement, his point is either lower or lower and slightly off line to the left. That's what happens quite often when practicing this type of footwork in the wind. There is a similar situation in codex wallerstein shown here by Christian Tobler, though with the inverted left hand and it is his left foot moving him to the left on the right side of the blade (at 1:01):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOamzdO- ... er&list=UL

I agree that, normally, I would expect to see the left foot step at the 45 to take center line away from the opponent and place my tip at his face. But I can also see reasons for the step into the right (i.e. into the direction of the wind). With or without the inverted hand I can see a benefit to closing off the line of attack and using the 'winding in' motion to make the strike.

Andy,

It is quite possible that there is a disconnect in the art. I think that the series shown here is intended to be a continuous winding action showing how one wind leads to the next without losing the vor, once it is taken. I have other examples with the same series of moves. I ran out of time for a full response though...brb

[Jesse Eaton]

Andy,

My thought is that the opponent has displaced the thrust and is attempting to strike up and over in the second frame. The third frame is a counter to the opponents attack above. This series is intended to follow the Merkverse as is clear from the writing which matches almost word for word the Dobringer here:

This is regarding the Rage strike.

When someone strikes at you from above, strike a rage strike and draw (or slide?) the point at him, and you shall also step towards the right side. If he notices this, take away from above without fear, be stronger, turn against it, and take it down. If he notices this, then go down.

there's more but I'm out of time again...

[ashultz]

The pictures could easily illustrate the verse ( and from the text seem to be meant to ) without actually showing one continuous path through it.

If we take all three plates the first two easily fit together and have the same opponent. The third requires two steps with one blade action to stay at the same distance but swap feet and has a different opponent. Those are both points against it being a direct follow, since he often uses the same opponent for actions which easily flow and then switches opponents for a new concept.

Of course he's also intermittently left handed so it may not be worth reading too much into the details all the time, so the apparent weird foregrounding of red guy may just be the artist grasping to show something he wasn't quite up to.

[Jesse Eaton]

Andy,

I don't think the changing partners is relevant because 60r is all by itself, even though 60v is clearly, by the text, the next move after 60r, but it has a different partner. The wind he is doing is also a natural follow up from the position he is in on 59v. Instead of showing the wind on the left side of the blade, as is more typical, his is on the right. Also, if we assume that the opponent is successfully defending himself, and thus the continuation of a series of winding actions is necessary and shown in this series, then it would seem that his opponent would have been backing up. So, only be one step, not two, is necessary.

As to him being portrayed left handed. He is, in the longsword section, only left handed in presenting the Alber ward. And both he and the other presenter showing vom Tag are left handed on that frame. Here is another version showing the same left hand Alber:

http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/File:MS_1825_18v.jpg

I don't think that is an error. Though I do see a possible disconnect between his position on 61r to 61v. His mutir doesn't seem to follow from his duplir. Except that the duplieren shows a clear line of attack, almost hitting his opponent, so this could also be looked at as a place where the opponent has to back up.

In the expanded version, two more versions of this series are shown. The first version, the Munich is what I started with. The expanded includes the images from the Bologna and the Vienna editions. The Bologna shows the more standard step out in the wind. The Vienna is almost identical to the first, but doesn't show facial features and other details. A fourth version, the Solothurn is there too, but it lacks the full set if plates:

http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Paulus_Kal/E ... .9Ffechten

The idea that these are a series of continuous actions is most evident in the Bologna edition. Which supports my claim that the Munich series is a continuous set, though not for my alternate interpretation of the wind. The Bologna version of plate 59v clearly shows the opponent moving just look at his feet. It looks like he is stepping forward and the attacker has to step out and to his left for the wind in 60r. This is consistent with my idea that against a hard bind in the center with forward momentum, it is better to step away from the direction of the wind thus allowing my opponent to carry forward and using his momentum to make the stab to his face more effective. But to get more evidence for the step into the direction of the bind I'll have to look at later manuals. I'll have to get back to you later for that...

[Keith P. Myers]

Viewing those three images as a sequence, I can see where possibly the intent WAS to step into the bind as Jesse proposes. Maybe the idea in stepping into the bind was that you expect the opponent to hold the center as in the second image, with a plan to mutier into a low thrust when he does...as in the third image.

[Jon Pellett]

As to him being portrayed left handed. He is, in the longsword section, only left handed in presenting the Alber ward. And both he and the other presenter showing vom Tag are left handed on that frame. Here is another version showing the same left hand Alber:

http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/File:MS_1825_18v.jpg

Wow, that's interesting. Both Talhoffer and Kal consistently show a left-handed low position with polearms, against right-handed Vom Tag, leading to a bind behind and thrust, but I didn't know Kal did it with longsword too.

[Bill Carew]

Here's another video from Colin Richards showing an application of the zornhau (without step ala Falkner) Followed by a cross step through toward the opponent's right side with the first wind (into the upper left hanger):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EON1N_Sdsc

I like the ideas he presents here. Stepping through toward the direction of the wind places a lot of pressure on the opponent as it constrains him and helps precipitate the kind of panic that leads to him overcommitting and moving beyond the compass of true defence as he displaces the wind, in turn making abnahmen/ablauffen so much easier.