I love it when ancient wisdom says exactly what I do :)

[Mike Edelson]

Dustin Reagan found this little gem for me:

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/31214/31214-h/31214-h.htm#Page_1

Here is the part I love. They might as well have put a footnote that said, "In the future, Mike Awesomeson will say the exact thing but no one will listen to him because no one will be awesome enough:"

Though stick-play[their stick is our modern plastic waster or steel blunt] is invaluable as an aid to work with the sword, it may be remarked that there are two reasons, and those important ones, why the single-stick should not be first placed in the hands of the beginner, and why it should never altogether usurp the place of the more lethal weapon[note the word lethal, implying real sword]. The reasons are—

(a.) The stick is very light, and short smart hits can be made, which are impossible with a sword. [Hmmm...who has been saying that since he learned how to type on the internets?? Hmmm?]

(b.) The hit with the stick is really a hit, and there need be no draw, which, as already explained, is so important in sword-play. [You mean hitting with a stick is not the same as cutting with a sword?? Who would have thunk it!]

To these may be added a third reason. With the stick there is always the temptation not to cut with the true edge, and it is very hard to detect faults in this direction—faults which are hard to cure, and which may quite spoil good swordsmanship.

[Jeremiah Smith]

wait who is Mike Awesomeson?
Sounds like the name of a guy I should listen to

[Jean Chandler]

Most of these specific objections, like the stick being too light or not having an edge, or not being dangerous, are covered by using say, an Albion Liechtenauer.

J

[Sean Karp]

Is he not speaking mostly about a saber?

I ask because when you learn scimitar form it has a different flow than early broadsword. A form more appropriate to a calvary saber than say.. a brynjubítr.

Edit: Scimitar is very similar to Dao BTW.

-Sean

[Ben Floyd]

What source has a scimitar form from which one can learn fighting with sharps?

editted: clarification

[Dan Sellars]

His that source talking about sharps or using a more realistic training tool? As Jean points out.

[Jean Chandler]

For a madman like Edelson the sharp is the only realistic training tool.... and if you can't juggle at least 5 of them, you have no business claiming to study fencing.

Also, you must be able to do the sword dance.



and the even harder, albanian sword-dance



J

[Michael Chidester]

I was working on the Albanian Sword Dance for a little while there, but on my best day I could barely vault the drummer, let alone control five swords at the same time.

[Mike Edelson]

Most of these specific objections, like the stick being too light or not having an edge, or not being dangerous, are covered by using say, an Albion Liechtenauer.

J

Yes, which is why we should fight all of our tournaments specifically with that trainer. Do we? No.

Even so, a Liechtenauer solves some of these problems (and that is probably why few people fence all out full blast with them) but it doesn't have an edge. When you hit the guy and your edge alignment is off, who is going to tell you? How will you even know? Edge alignment doesn't mean just have the edge somewhat in the direction your're cutting. It means you have the edge EXACTLY where you are cutting. The Liechtenauer can be used for "dry practice," but you need to cut to know if you're doing it right. And because it is not a real sword it will not quite calibrate you correctly. It is best to practice with the same sword or swords you are going to be cutting with.

Also, A Liechtenauer feels somewhat like a real sword, but not quite. It's dynamic balance is off. This is a small thing, and only people who care about such matters will notice it. But yeah, a Liechtenauer is a fine training tool for doing things you can't usually do with sharp swords, like partnered drills and free fencing. The fact that it doesn't have a schilt is also a big plus, as the schilt distorts some bind actions by saving your fingers when they would/should otherwise be hit, which is its purpose.

btw...do you, or have you owned a Liechtenauer? I've used one extensively. We had one of the heavier, stiffer ones in NYHFA a few years back.

[Mike Edelson]

Anyway how dare you disagree with the masters of olden times?? I forgive you for disagreeing with Mike Awesomeson, but you go too far sir!