Translation Needed

[Robert R.]

Wonder if someone could translate page 77 for me:

http://www6.ub.lu.se/fsi/viewer/fsi.swf ... ge=english

[Christian Trosclair]

If you can find a transcription of that page, I'd be happy to.
-xn

[Robert R.]

Yeah, I figured that would be a challenge in of itself: regognizing the characters on the page. I'll see what I can do.

[Keith P. Myers]

Yeah, for nearly all of the hand-written manuscripts translation is not the problem. The problem is deciphering the hand-writing! Kevin Mauer has been working on the entire Meyer 1560. But he doesn't have it quite ready for release yet.

[Mike Ruhala]

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who has a hard time understanding that writing! It does however raise the specter of another point of failure in our process of interpretation of historical material.

[Keith P. Myers]

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who has a hard time understanding that writing! It does however raise the specter of another point of failure in our process of interpretation of historical material.

It just takes practice. I've worked with the Dresden edition of Paulus Hector Mair so much that I have no problem reading the handwriting or following the language. I can pretty much just read it straight up as intended. Hopefully Kevin is getting to that point with Meyer's 1560.

[martin fabian]

Hard as hell. Feel free to do any corrections.

[77]Item versetz ihm sein stich wie vor / heb dein gefes
ubersich zu lincken Ochsen / und nim mit halber sch.
von deiner linck durch sein recht auss / das dein
wehr ob dein haubtt hinfligt In rechtn Ochsen
haw Indes ain mittelhaw / unden durch seine
fuss von deiner rechtn / durch sein linckn / das
dein wehr zu lincke Ochsen ?schiess? nim mit halber
schneide undersich auss dein lincken Ochsen / das
dein wehr durch ?sein? ablaufft wider In Rechten
Ochsen verschiess / las behend Im den Rechtn Ochsen
mit ausnemen neben deinen lincke durch=
lauffen / und stich als durch ein doppel aus=
nemen uber die handt / khum (or haw?) In die Eysenport

Generally to understand Meyer you have to read everything from the beginning of that chapter. He may have some quotes on "fus anheben" sooner, hidden in the text. I've transcribed the pages 76 and partially 78, but it would take additional time to do corrections and IMO it won't bring more satisfaction.

However there are some mentions of what you're probably looking for in 1570 print - he does that either to prepare himself for a powerful thrust (e.g. Rappier, book 1, beginning of chapter 5) or to confuse, deceive his opponent. It's quite funny, you should try it out in sparring with rappier or longswords.

[Robert R.]

Great, thank you!

Anyone wish to translate?

[Keith P. Myers]

Ok. Here is my rough 1st pass translation passed entirely on Martin's transcription:

[77]Item versetz ihm sein stich wie vor / heb dein gefes
ubersich zu lincken Ochsen / und nim mit halber sch.
von deiner linck durch sein recht auss / das dein
wehr ob dein haubtt hinfligt In rechtn Ochsen
haw Indes ain mittelhaw / unden durch seine

parry his thrust well in front, lift your gefes? upwards to left Ochs and with the half edge take out (ausnemen) from your left through his right such that your weapon flies around behind your head into right Ochs. Then immediately strike a Mittelhaw from below through his

fuss von deiner rechtn / durch sein linckn / das
dein wehr zu lincke Ochsen ?schiess? nim mit halber
schneide undersich auss dein lincken Ochsen / das
dein wehr durch ?sein? ablaufft wider In Rechten

foot from your right through his left such that your weapon shoots to left Ochs. Take out (ausnemen) with the half edge downwards your left Ochs such that your weapon through ...his...runs off again in right

Ochsen verschiess / las behend Im den Rechtn Ochsen
mit ausnemen neben deinen lincke durch=
lauffen / und stich als durch ein doppel aus=
nemen uber die handt / khum (or haw?) In die Eysenport [/quote]

Ochs shoots forth. Quickly allow in the right Ochs with take out (ausnemen) near your left run through and thrust once more through a double take out (ausnemen) over the hand. ? in the Eisenport.

Note: The ausnemen or "take out" is a crossing false edge parry and essentially the same as the "falso" parry from the Bolognese method.

Nothing is said about lifting the leg or any foot work.

.[/quote]

[Robert R.]

This sounds similar to the Double Round Stroke, which I was originally trying to link up to the image in question. If I were to make a guess, the image could show the preperation for the second cut:

"Now for the stepping conduct yourself
thus: for the first two Middle Cuts; advance your
right foot only a little bit, but not hard upon the
ground, rather gather your weight with this step
so that you can advance with the same foot that
much more readily for the third cut; for as soon as
your foot touches the ground in the first step, you
shall raise it up again, and shall set it forth with
the third cut. You shall complete these three cuts
quickly in a single pulling motion like the letter S,
with two steps (pg 182, Meyer, Forgeng)."